American Ideas I (aka Great Issues III): Judith Sargent Murray Thread
Posted by Al on February 27th, 2008 filed in UncategorizedSince the elements are conspiring against us, let’s hold class on the web. Here’s my first question regarding Ms. Murray. Given: that her essay is a set of refutations of claims that have been made by men against women, to justify women’s political and civil inequality. Question: what are some of these claims? Everyone post at once.
March 1st, 2008 at 9:22 am
One claim Murray makes is that of education. Men are taught to aspire, while women are confined and limited. As they age, women are taught to be domestic, while men are lead down the path of science. This makes women unhappy and hard to find a soul equal to her own because men are more educated than the women.
She is saying (I think) that both men and women are born equal in souls, but how they are lead down the path of life by education or what is “expected” of them is what starts tearing them apart in equality.
March 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
One of the claims in this is that women are supposed to be domestic and only do the cooking and sewing and taking care of the children because if they didn’t then who would. Because if they were educated and worked or whatever than there would be no one to do these domestic jobs.
Another claim is that women are not equal to men because of Eve’s sin in the Garden of Eden
March 2nd, 2008 at 5:45 pm
In this essay, Murray is making one essential argument; that women are intelligent creatures, requiring more than a needle or a kitchen to keep their intellect occupied. To her, men and women are by nature created equal, otherwise God would not have given men and women similar souls, yet society and it’s customs is holding back women in more ways than one, while encouraging men in all manners of growth and achievement. Murray examines techniques used by men to generate inequality between the sexes. She then turns the basis for men’s superiority over women against them by using arguments, such as, men are strong like lions and tigers, beasts of prey, and men’s strength is like the strength of brute animals. She also argues that impartial nature equalizes men and women by matching men’s physical strength with women’s superior intellect. Finally, Murray contends that men formulated the rules of society for their own benefit and without regard to women’s desires or needs.
While I am somewhat a feminist, I also take a behavioralist mindframe. I believe that it is not a coincidence that all of human life has for the most part formed the same domestic arrangements as we currently abide by. Men and women are powered by different chemicals, and hence thought processes, so I believe there must be some logical reason explaining why society has evolved the way it has. Thinking back to cavemen, the woman’s job is to win the best mate, then bear and protect the children. The man’s job is to fend off enemies and hunt in order to provide food for the family; it makes sense for him to have the more physically demanding job because testosterone provides him with more muscle mass, energy, and stamina than women. Since women are not as physically powerful, and are the ones to attract the opposite sex, it makes sense that they would eventually stay close to home for the children’s sake, and also for the husband’s sake - after she has won her chosen mate, there is no need for her to leave her home or cave, as this would only serve to upset her mate. He considers her his prize, and don’t forget, her main drive is to protect her children, which means not driving away her mate.
I believe society is evolving, and women can do whatever they desire, but I also honestly believe that women serving as domestic caretakers is logical simply due to the roles we served hundreds and hundreds of years ago. I don’t think that men have or had any superfluous power over us other than we allowed them to. My last and strongest belief is that feminism should be and is more than male bashing.
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am
One comment she says is “As if a woman’s form needs ENROL
( meaning registered or proven). A weak, a servile ( submissive), an inferious soul; that the guise of man must still proclaim, GREATNESS of mind, and him, to be the same”.
Another comment she makes is ” They rob us of of the power t’improve, and then declare we only trifles love”
Another comment made by her is ” Yes, ye lordly, ye haughty sex, our souls are by nature EQUAL to yours; the same breath of GOD animtes, enlivens, and invigorates us; and that we have not fallen lower than yourselves, let those witness who have greatly towered above the various discouragements by which they have been so heavily oppressed; and though I am acquainted with the list of celebrated characters on either side, yet from observations I have made in the contracted circle in which I have moved, I dare confidently believe, that from the commencment of time to the present day, there hath been as many females, as males, who, by the MERE FORCE OF NATURAL POWERS, have merited the crown applause; who, thus unassisted, have seized the wreath of fame”.
Thus in the above passages it could be said that men think women are not worthy have not yet proven themselves in society that they should not be treated as equals. Although they are often dainty, and fragile beings, that doesn’t mean, in my opinion, that they are lesser then a man. Men hunt, kill, and they are brudish, and great workers with their hands and often great thinkers, Women are nurturing, loving, hardworkers in regards to a family and keeping stability, also great thinkers, they are not savages as men are normally, They are generally caring and kind while men, well we are genrally jerks. So women and men are alike in the aspect of great thinking. Men in the story we read, at least what I get from her words, think women are just good for sex, and domestic duties. While I am a man and love sex myslef I know there is more to a woman then just sex and house duties. For I believe man would be dead without women. Men generally just impose their will no matter what have since beginning of time and will continue. We are wired in that way, almost immature throughout our whole life maybe.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Since I just found out about this little “gathering”….I will still make an attempt to post - though I know the subject of Sargent Murray is ‘long’ gone….I found that the main and underlying issue to which Murray was trying to get acrosss in her aeguments against men is the idea of unequl opportunity and access women have had in the line of education. She is claiming that men get more opportunity through education which is the reason for the intellectual “gap” and theat if women were given a similar opportunity, then not only would and could they be as sufficient in the thinking reralm as men - but could also constitute the ability to do the every day “woman’s things” (like making ‘puddings’) as well. However, leaving women to do this “woman’s work” alone and soley, is simply leaving their intelligences vacant in the idea of Murray.
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